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	<title>Comments on: Undas - food for the soul</title>
	<link>http://www.korakora.org/wordpress/2006/11/01/undas-foor-for-the-soul/</link>
	<description>Fats Lasay</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 13:25:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Lucky Monkey</title>
		<link>http://www.korakora.org/wordpress/2006/11/01/undas-foor-for-the-soul/#comment-489</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Nov 2006 07:31:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.korakora.org/wordpress/2006/11/01/undas-foor-for-the-soul/#comment-489</guid>
					<description>[1] Body: .......

[2] Language: ..........

:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[1] Body: &#8230;&#8230;.</p>
<p>[2] Language: &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
<p>:)
</p>
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		<title>by: Fats</title>
		<link>http://www.korakora.org/wordpress/2006/11/01/undas-foor-for-the-soul/#comment-488</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Nov 2006 06:33:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.korakora.org/wordpress/2006/11/01/undas-foor-for-the-soul/#comment-488</guid>
					<description>Ah, I don't deal with body language knowledge separately in what I wrote you. Writing is linear, use your imagination! And you talk too much, live that love, retraint and resposibility for real in your life - not whether others find it oppressive or not. You haven't started living yet! Didn't you ever get it? My doctor wants to know more about you and what and how you think of yourself and not what you think of me or my family! A pity. You don't live for the valuation or the constructive (or whatever) criticism of others. Live &lt;strong&gt;your own life&lt;/strong&gt; now before it's too late!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, I don&#8217;t deal with body language knowledge separately in what I wrote you. Writing is linear, use your imagination! And you talk too much, live that love, retraint and resposibility for real in your life - not whether others find it oppressive or not. You haven&#8217;t started living yet! Didn&#8217;t you ever get it? My doctor wants to know more about you and what and how you think of yourself and not what you think of me or my family! A pity. You don&#8217;t live for the valuation or the constructive (or whatever) criticism of others. Live <strong>your own life</strong> now before it&#8217;s too late!
</p>
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		<title>by: Lucky Monkey</title>
		<link>http://www.korakora.org/wordpress/2006/11/01/undas-foor-for-the-soul/#comment-487</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Nov 2006 06:21:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.korakora.org/wordpress/2006/11/01/undas-foor-for-the-soul/#comment-487</guid>
					<description>Thank you for your kind advice -and thank you for making the effort. I always take your viewpoints and advice seriously. Hopefully, you will patiently bear with me (again) and forgive me for trying to answer some of the many good points that you raised: I agree entirely when you say "If true love and kindness and goodness have become endangered in this world then indeed shouldn’t we be spending more time nurturing what is left of these rather than giving in to the temptation of destroying our enemies?". It is in this spirit that I hope that my reply will do more good than harm.

It is delightful to read that your direct environment is changing. Good to read that your anger is decreasing too. Your analogy is very accurate -earlier we were both drowning -and in such cases, people can sometimes help each other. However, especially if they both panic, they can also make things much worse for each other and such situations should be avoided. Which is perhaps not to say that they should abandon each other completely -especially if one (or even both) of them has now been rescued, or they have managed to save themselves somehow....

Perhaps we were also both rather like Super Inggo too. So it is good to hear that she has escaped, hopefully to do better this time..... In fact, I understood quite well the danger of becoming what one fights against. This was one reason for my isolation in Holland (in the absence of a more positive environment at the time). It was the reason that I left the aki. It was also the reason that I abandoned all international ambitions and preferred to watch the plants grow -while concentrating on healing ourselves and each other by working with you on our personal archeologies. Hopefully, as your anger decreases you will understand better the positive aspects of my attempt -and see it less as an imposition and more as the invitation that it was truly intended to be. Indeed, I saw the move to the Philippines with great optimism -a chance to break with the past and concentrate on the positive. This was the happiness that you brought me. Unfortunately, the negativity and lack of sensuality in the new environment was too powerful and destructive. It seems that our own tribes did successfully lock us both in a jar -with disastrous consequences. Like you, I have no wish to go back to the past. So it is very good news to hear about the changes being effected. In the several letters that I have written to your doctor (and given permission for you to read when ready) I have also spoken of my hope that improvements in your family environment might lead to improvements in my relationship with them and with you too.

There is no need to explain the power of love -there is only the need to have faith that I am not so stupid that I can never understand such things.

The idea of (both individual and collective) retreat was indeed something I suggested earlier in a posting on your "projects" site (with regards to marginalized artists). I am not afraid of "spirituality" (or intuition) -but I am afraid that the language it uses can (sometimes) impose and obscure more than it reveals (as can the language of other things -such as politics, art history and philosophy, etc...). Certainly, I would be grateful for more information and advice on this, as a retreat is completely uncharted territory for me -and I would not like to go down false paths at a critical moment. What is so obvious for a person from one background can be completely invisible and obscure to someone from a different background -and non-dogmatic and patient guidance can be essential in such cases. Perhaps the organization of a retreat (for more than just myself) could still play a valuable practical role within your project structure.

Concerning "body" and "language" the situation is more complex: By dealing with them separately it perhaps becomes less easy to understand how my work actually focuses on the integrated use of (both formal and material) "body" to dialogue and question the intuitions so easily (and perhaps sometimes uncritically) expressed in the "language" of blogs, "new media" and western culture generally. In a sense, by reflecting "Body" in "Language", my work applies the "Custody of the eye" to creative mental (and cultural) processes in general. Perhaps this is why many people find it so oppressive -because it does indeed imply responsibility and restraint in an age of total abandonment. However, my theories are not just mental impositions -they are also developed through intuitive practice -and are tested and developed by implementations (and observations) in various contexts (which doesn't necessarily mean that they are universally true!). Of course they may also be flawed by personal fears and panic attacks -but perhaps this too is part of the process of externalisation and examination. Not all the texts on my site are rants and raves against society -many are positive attempts to deal with complex issues -and I'm also hoping to present more visual work soon. Of course there are many texts -but this is the result of 30 years working experience (both positive and negative) -much of which still hasn't been ordered and integrated. It was my intention to discuss the issues raised on my site (and how they might relate to others) via the Korakora list -but regrettably this failed. Hopefully, I can establish my own mailing list for informal discussion soon. You (and others) will be welcome to join. I believe that your preference for blogging and my preference for a more formal approach should be seen as different but valuable contributions to a potentially fruitful dialogue -and not as mutually destructive oppositions. Unfortunately, there are currently technical problems with the computer -and my isolation does make it difficult to find a technician who is able and willing to deal with Linux in combination with possible hardware problems -so progress is slow at present.

Responsibility is too complex and ambiguous a concept to discuss here and now. Suffice it to say that there is a difference between being responsible for damaging something and being responsible for trying to repair it. A person can feel responsible for repairing things without having to feel responsible for them being damaged in the first place (as indeed a person can presumably be responsible for damaging things without taking responsibility for their repair). So perhaps we were talking about different things and this explains the difference in our answers -more than a difference in actual belief or approach. I suspect that such confusions happened fairly often in our relationship -with love, hope, ambition, anger and frustration (on both sides) creating a toxic mix that blocked a truly mutual understanding of the situation -and each other. Differences in language (and perhaps body of experience) created a deadly mixture that tragically caused apparent differences to destroy the underlying solidarity of thought, feeling and desire. Perhaps initially, we should have spent more time exploring and understanding each other -explaining and appreciating our differences more -rather than letting them force us apart.

The move to the flat could have made this mutual exploration easier -but, apparently, came just too late. However, one road may be more stony than the other -but ultimately, surely, it doesn't matter as long as the travelers all arrive and can reunite safely at their destination. All's well that ends well -but all was for nothing if things ends badly. So let's look forward and celebrate the changes....

However, the effects of change and perhaps misunderstanding are difficult to communicate and correct when all communication lines are cut. Given a free choice, then a constructive dialogue which also leaves room for alternative viewpoints (without becoming entirely negative and destructive) is surely much more preferable than playing the "blame game". Hopefully, soon Super Inggo will have recuperated and will finally become truly free....

Imagine what two (or more) of them could do if they learned from their mistakes, refocused their energies and worked together.... :)

:)(:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for your kind advice -and thank you for making the effort. I always take your viewpoints and advice seriously. Hopefully, you will patiently bear with me (again) and forgive me for trying to answer some of the many good points that you raised: I agree entirely when you say &#8220;If true love and kindness and goodness have become endangered in this world then indeed shouldn’t we be spending more time nurturing what is left of these rather than giving in to the temptation of destroying our enemies?&#8221;. It is in this spirit that I hope that my reply will do more good than harm.</p>
<p>It is delightful to read that your direct environment is changing. Good to read that your anger is decreasing too. Your analogy is very accurate -earlier we were both drowning -and in such cases, people can sometimes help each other. However, especially if they both panic, they can also make things much worse for each other and such situations should be avoided. Which is perhaps not to say that they should abandon each other completely -especially if one (or even both) of them has now been rescued, or they have managed to save themselves somehow&#8230;.</p>
<p>Perhaps we were also both rather like Super Inggo too. So it is good to hear that she has escaped, hopefully to do better this time&#8230;.. In fact, I understood quite well the danger of becoming what one fights against. This was one reason for my isolation in Holland (in the absence of a more positive environment at the time). It was the reason that I left the aki. It was also the reason that I abandoned all international ambitions and preferred to watch the plants grow -while concentrating on healing ourselves and each other by working with you on our personal archeologies. Hopefully, as your anger decreases you will understand better the positive aspects of my attempt -and see it less as an imposition and more as the invitation that it was truly intended to be. Indeed, I saw the move to the Philippines with great optimism -a chance to break with the past and concentrate on the positive. This was the happiness that you brought me. Unfortunately, the negativity and lack of sensuality in the new environment was too powerful and destructive. It seems that our own tribes did successfully lock us both in a jar -with disastrous consequences. Like you, I have no wish to go back to the past. So it is very good news to hear about the changes being effected. In the several letters that I have written to your doctor (and given permission for you to read when ready) I have also spoken of my hope that improvements in your family environment might lead to improvements in my relationship with them and with you too.</p>
<p>There is no need to explain the power of love -there is only the need to have faith that I am not so stupid that I can never understand such things.</p>
<p>The idea of (both individual and collective) retreat was indeed something I suggested earlier in a posting on your &#8220;projects&#8221; site (with regards to marginalized artists). I am not afraid of &#8220;spirituality&#8221; (or intuition) -but I am afraid that the language it uses can (sometimes) impose and obscure more than it reveals (as can the language of other things -such as politics, art history and philosophy, etc&#8230;). Certainly, I would be grateful for more information and advice on this, as a retreat is completely uncharted territory for me -and I would not like to go down false paths at a critical moment. What is so obvious for a person from one background can be completely invisible and obscure to someone from a different background -and non-dogmatic and patient guidance can be essential in such cases. Perhaps the organization of a retreat (for more than just myself) could still play a valuable practical role within your project structure.</p>
<p>Concerning &#8220;body&#8221; and &#8220;language&#8221; the situation is more complex: By dealing with them separately it perhaps becomes less easy to understand how my work actually focuses on the integrated use of (both formal and material) &#8220;body&#8221; to dialogue and question the intuitions so easily (and perhaps sometimes uncritically) expressed in the &#8220;language&#8221; of blogs, &#8220;new media&#8221; and western culture generally. In a sense, by reflecting &#8220;Body&#8221; in &#8220;Language&#8221;, my work applies the &#8220;Custody of the eye&#8221; to creative mental (and cultural) processes in general. Perhaps this is why many people find it so oppressive -because it does indeed imply responsibility and restraint in an age of total abandonment. However, my theories are not just mental impositions -they are also developed through intuitive practice -and are tested and developed by implementations (and observations) in various contexts (which doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean that they are universally true!). Of course they may also be flawed by personal fears and panic attacks -but perhaps this too is part of the process of externalisation and examination. Not all the texts on my site are rants and raves against society -many are positive attempts to deal with complex issues -and I&#8217;m also hoping to present more visual work soon. Of course there are many texts -but this is the result of 30 years working experience (both positive and negative) -much of which still hasn&#8217;t been ordered and integrated. It was my intention to discuss the issues raised on my site (and how they might relate to others) via the Korakora list -but regrettably this failed. Hopefully, I can establish my own mailing list for informal discussion soon. You (and others) will be welcome to join. I believe that your preference for blogging and my preference for a more formal approach should be seen as different but valuable contributions to a potentially fruitful dialogue -and not as mutually destructive oppositions. Unfortunately, there are currently technical problems with the computer -and my isolation does make it difficult to find a technician who is able and willing to deal with Linux in combination with possible hardware problems -so progress is slow at present.</p>
<p>Responsibility is too complex and ambiguous a concept to discuss here and now. Suffice it to say that there is a difference between being responsible for damaging something and being responsible for trying to repair it. A person can feel responsible for repairing things without having to feel responsible for them being damaged in the first place (as indeed a person can presumably be responsible for damaging things without taking responsibility for their repair). So perhaps we were talking about different things and this explains the difference in our answers -more than a difference in actual belief or approach. I suspect that such confusions happened fairly often in our relationship -with love, hope, ambition, anger and frustration (on both sides) creating a toxic mix that blocked a truly mutual understanding of the situation -and each other. Differences in language (and perhaps body of experience) created a deadly mixture that tragically caused apparent differences to destroy the underlying solidarity of thought, feeling and desire. Perhaps initially, we should have spent more time exploring and understanding each other -explaining and appreciating our differences more -rather than letting them force us apart.</p>
<p>The move to the flat could have made this mutual exploration easier -but, apparently, came just too late. However, one road may be more stony than the other -but ultimately, surely, it doesn&#8217;t matter as long as the travelers all arrive and can reunite safely at their destination. All&#8217;s well that ends well -but all was for nothing if things ends badly. So let&#8217;s look forward and celebrate the changes&#8230;.</p>
<p>However, the effects of change and perhaps misunderstanding are difficult to communicate and correct when all communication lines are cut. Given a free choice, then a constructive dialogue which also leaves room for alternative viewpoints (without becoming entirely negative and destructive) is surely much more preferable than playing the &#8220;blame game&#8221;. Hopefully, soon Super Inggo will have recuperated and will finally become truly free&#8230;.</p>
<p>Imagine what two (or more) of them could do if they learned from their mistakes, refocused their energies and worked together&#8230;. <img src='http://www.korakora.org/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>:)(:
</p>
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